Chaitanya Belwal, Experienced with Technology and Defense matters(对技术和国防事务有丰富的经验)
India China did have a war in 1967, which was fought in 2 locations. The war composed of two battles, in Nathu La and Cho La both in the eastern theater. Unlike 1962, the Chinese did not open a front in the Northern area (Ladakh/Aksai Chin). This was mainly because in the 1962 war the PLA did not make any major advances in the North like they did in the Eastern theater. The two incidents were at Nathu La and Cho La and stemmed from Chinese maneuvers to take control of Sikkim. Thinking that the defenses India had were as weak as they were in 1962, the Chinese mobilized forces. However, the Indian forces took preemptive action and started to demark the boundary using barbed wire. This was stopped by the Chinese, and after some time they started a full surprise assault backed by MMG and artillery fire. However, since the Indians occupied the heights, Chinese bunkers were completely annihilated by highly accurate Indian artillery fire over the course of 3 days. The Chinese were forced to withdraw and evacuate all their aggressive positions. The 1967 war was a decisive Indian victory, and was the catalyst of Sikkim merging with India in 1975. More Details: Nathu La and Cho La clashes - Wikipedia
---------------------- Kevin Wang, lives in China China have a different version which have more acculate records, acculated to minutes even the quantity of bullets used. Forget the Wikipedit, Chinese do not use and edit them, it is not so reliable if it is edit by indians or others who did not know Chinese words, and just take the opinion of indians. The record from China Sep 11, 7:30 India approach to the chinese sentry post. China stick the discipline of not to shoot first. And request india soliders to step back. Sep11, 8:05 India solider shoot first with grenade. Killed a company commender named Li Yancheng who is speaking and request india soliders to step back. Another 6 chinese soliders wounded. Then chinese soliders shoot back, finished the conflict in 7 minutes, killed 67 india soliders, destroyed 7 india fortification with model 40 rocket launcher. 8:15 India solider run out of china controled area.Chinese solider didn’t chase into the india controled area. (Many india soliders’ dead bodies left in china, when the conflict finished, the india soliders take a white flag into china to get these bodies back.) Then india artillery No.17 brigade started fire. Then chinese artillery No. 380 regiment fire back with their 82 and 120 mortars. During the 4 days and 3 nights artillery conflict, Chinese artillery destroyed 8 artillery positons, 2 command post, 2 sentry post, 23 fortifications and 2 trucks. Killed and wounded 540 india soliders. Finally, india artillery stop fire at Sep 13, 22:00, then china stopped at Sep 14, midday after the indicate of premier Zhou Enlai. (If india stopped fire, we stop as well). In Oct 1th, 11:20, total 7 india soliders crossed the border and try to kidnap a chinese solider back to india, but failed and then they were pushed back to the india border. As usual, india solider shoot first killed 1 and wounded 1 chinese solider. Then chinese soliders fire back, killed all 7 india soliders who cross the border. The india artillery start fire use the 51mm and 81mm mortars.and chinese artillery fire back at 12:00, killed and wounded half of the two india companies total 195 india soliders. And destroyed 29 fortifications. India artillery stopped fire at 19:55, then china stopped. The result of this conflict: China killed 607 india soliders, capture 1 light machine guns, 9 submachine guns and 16 rifles. There are 123 chinese soliders killed or wounded. At last, india solider waves a white flag into china to get their dead bodies and weapon back. and signed in the accaptance document. Note: I just translate it with my poor english. I think the accaptance document is the most impotant evidence. But i do not know where the document is. Really a pity.
---------------------- Chen Yankai, lived in Beijng, China I don’t assume Indian friends’ claims are wrong. I will only provide PLA’s records of that skirmish so you can obtain information from both sides. All the information of wikipedia term—Nathu La and Cho La clashes - Wikipedia comes from Indian side. So the information from Chinese side?(not necessarily correct) Below is PLA’s record:
Source: 1967年中印边境冲突
The first skirmish began on Sep/11th/1967. 7:30, Indian mountain infantry approached Chinese sentry outpost near Nathu La by a battalion of No.112 brigade, 110 men in total. The Chinese Army issued a serious warning. At 8:07, the Indian army first shot and threw a grenade, leading to Chinese commander, Li Yancheng’s death. 6 Chinese soldiers were injured. PLA counterattacked immediately, using 40 rocket launcher . In 7 minutes, 67 Indian soldiers were killed. 7 Indian army fortifications were destroyed. At 8:15, the Indian army began to run back off the battlefield. PLA kept in place and did not chase Indian army. The seventeenth brigade of the Indian artillery began to bombard. Then Chinese artillery No. 380 regiment used No.82 and No.120 mortars to fire back. During the whole 4 days and 3 nights’ conflict, Indian army lost 8 artillery positons, 2 command post, 2 sentry post, 23 fortifications and 2 trucks due to Chinese artillery. 540 Indian solidiers were killed and wounded.(7 bodies were left in Chinese territory here.) Finally, Indian artillery stopped firing at Sep 13, 22:00. PLA stopped firing at 9/14, midday. The Second skirmish began on Oct/1st. At 11:20, 7 Indian soldiers crossed the border, conflicting against PLA soldiers with bodies but were pushed back to the India border. Indian soldiers then began to shoot. One chinese soldier was killed and one was wounded. Then Chinese soldiers fired back. 7 Indian soldiers who crossed the border were killed. Then India artillery started to bombard, using the 51mm and 81mm mortars. Chinese artillery bombarded back at 12:00, killing and wounding 195 Indian soldiers. 29 Indian fortifications were destroyed. India artillery stopped firing at 19:55 and so did PLA stop firing. Final output: 607 Indian soldiers were killed or wounded. 123 chinese soldiers were killed or wounded. PLA captured 1 light machine guns, 9 submachine guns and 16 rifles. Sep/16th, Indian side waved a white flag, asking to enter into Chinese territory. After signing up the delivering document, they took 14 bodies , 24 captured guns back. No Chinese soldier bodies and weapons were left in Indian side. Again, I emphasize that above is the record of PLA side. I provided it only for people here able to obtain information from both sides. Welcome to share your opinions :) Original answer: Indian government never officially claims a victory on that skirmish in 1967. Thus, basically, if your own government doesn’t regard it as a victory, what is the claim based on? Indian netizen edited Wikipedia term of 67 skirmish in their own wish. Just look at the references below the term. You’ll understand. The truth is Indian officials in 9/16 asked PLA to return 14 bodies, 24 captured guns and other stuff. I don’t know where they get the number— “340 casualties”. If their claim is right, PLA attacked into Sikkim, failed and retreated, leaving 340 bodies. Then, Any photos? Any Proof? If not having bodies, photos or official records of weapons captured will be alright. Also,what can China obtain by attacking Sikkim? Ok, even if I assume your assumption that China was a badass and wanted to occupy Sikkim is “right”, then, why only sent 400 men to conquer a country? Peace. [EDIT.1] In my comment area, Mr.Nayak said: “Do you have proof? Photos.. anything apart from a farce written by some PLA douche on their official website!” Ok, Mr.Nayak. Before pointing others’ claim is baseless, why not watch some old books first? I recommend an old book— “India China Border Dispute”, written by M.L.Sali, to you. Note: M.L.Sali is an Indian. Though some descxtions like who attacked first are different from Chinese Source, still, my humble opinion is that its quality of content is much better than the wikipedia term. At least, it doesn’t “create” some number(340 casualties) with no support of reliable references. And in another book— “China''s Shadow Over Sikkim: The Politics of Intimidation” , written by G. S. Bajpai: Thus, it seems PLA did deliver dead bodies to Indian side. At least, PLA didn’t forge that part of the record. So, Mr.Nayak, what’s your opinion now? The key controversy is: According to PLA’s source, it is “ PLA kept in place and did not chase Indian army.” According to the records of M.L.Saili, it is: Clearly, even the author didn’t think China’s intention is to occupy Sikkim’s land at that time. Finally, again, that answer’s aim is to provide the information from the other side so people can know things more comprehensively, not just from one side.
Harsh Patel @Chen Yankai Thank you for answering in a clear way so we can understand your perspective. In Indian perspective it was considered an unofficial victory because it prevented a repeat of 1962 war. ( Sort of ‘we repelled another invasion’). But frankly, Truth is first casualty in a war, maybe India was the aggressor, unfortunately this is something only few in government know. As they say in Geopolitics, truth is always twisted to fit one''s narrative. This is true for every interaction between any two states.
Chen Yankai Thanks, my friend. I didn’t see the notification of your comment. Honestly, I don’t know the truth either. What I provided is just a record from Chinese side. And I totally agree with your saying “As they say in Geopolitics, truth is always twisted to fit one''s narrative. ” :)
Dev K Dutta We have a fair idea of PLA claims and we don’t mind what the PLA likes to believe or not believe. We have our numbers and we have our figures in the right places. You have the freedom to be happy with your “overwhelming victory” in that war. However, we’re quite sure about the message we have been able to convey to your PLA. They know their place and our guys know their place. Till that status quo is maintained all will be fine. You cross the line…all hell will break loose.
Chen Yankai First, I never claimed it is an “overwhelming victory”. I even didn’t say PLA won in my answer. Second, according to the old records from Indian side in the bottom of my answer, I think PLA’s record, at least, is not totally wrong. If PLA crossed the line and attacked, losing hundreds men and retreated, where were the bodies? Indian army absolutely could make these bodies as bargain chips. Like I mentioned before, the opposite thing is: It’s Indian official went into China territory to get back bodies and weapons captured by PLA. These were recorded by both Chinese side and Indian side at that time. How to explain that?
Dev K Dutta This entire discourse is about implications and so when you claimed that 600+ Indian soldiers were killed by your PLA in the 1967 war you wanted to imply that China had won that war. You’re at liberty to believe whatever you like but it won’t change the situation on the ground. India prevented Sikkim from going into Chinese hands and conveyed a strong message - 1962 is no longer a yardstick for intimidation. Don’t cross the line! If our leadership had been alx in the early 1950s, we would have been able to prevent Chinese encroachment into Tibet and our territory of Aksai Chin in Jammu & Kashmir. That’s how we look at Aksai Chin and Tibet. It’s our prerogative. You’re not going to tell us how to look at these occupied areas just as we don’t tell you how to look at Arunachal Pradesh. You have your views and it’s your prerogative. Be happy with that. As far as the bodies of the dead Chinese soldiers is concerned, you can rest assured that India has never and will never play dirty games with the dead bodies of enemy soldiers. Our culture and tradition forbids us to play dirty games with dead bodies. We don’t hide our casualties in wars and battles to influence historical records. For us, the sacrifice and martyrdom of our soldiers is a reflection of strength, not weakness. When any of our soldiers makes the supreme sacrifice, we make it a point to let the world know about his/her martyrdom. It’s a matter of pride and inspiration for us. We know that the Chinese casualties were close to 500 in that war and our troops didn’t stop your troops from carrying away the dead bodies of their comrades in arms. We call it Honor. The dead deserve a decent funeral even if they are enemy soldiers. FYI - captured dead bodies are usually returned by rival armies and ALWAYS returned by the Indian army. But captured weapons? Hell…No. Never. Indian, Chinese or any other army.
Chen Yankai Calm down my friend. “607 Indian soldiers were killed or wounded.” The record never say 607 were killed… 10–20% of the total casualties are expected to be killed, generally. How many times do I need to illustrate: it’s just a record from one side. Don’t you think it’s unfair to watch information from only one side(India), especially like such things happening between two countries ? “We know that the Chinese casualties were close to 500 in that war and our troops didn’t stop your troops from carrying away the dead bodies of their comrades in arms.”—any records? Why was that moral action not recorded in both books written by Indians? Not 340? Now it becomes 500. You still didn’t explain why Indian bodies were in China territory. PLA did return weapons in 62 and 67. It’s not difficult to google it. As for your saying that India could prevent China from retaking Tibet in 1950, honestly speaking, considering PVA’s performance in Korean War, it’s hard to say. Korean war BUT maybe you are quite right. Who knows.
Kaushalendra Yadav Seeing their CO fall, the Grenadiers became mad with rage. In a fit of fury, they came out of their trenches, and attacked the Chinese post, led by Captain P.S. Dagar. The company of 18 Rajput, under Major Harbhajan Singh, and the sappers and pioneers working on the fence had been caught in the open, and suffered heavy casualties from the Chinese firing. Realising that the only way to neutralise the Chinese fire was a physical assault, Harbhajan shouted to his men, and led them in a charge on the Chinese position. Several of the Indian troops were mowed down by Chinese machine guns, but those who reached the Chinese bunkers used their bayonets and accounted for many of the enemy. Both Harbhajan and Dagar lost their lives in the action, which developed into a full scale battle, lasting six days. Sagat had asked for some medium guns, and I have copied it from a book of a soldier of that incident.i think these lines will give you your answer about why indian soldier bodies found in Chinese territory.
Rajiv Prasad If I say you to watch the movie PALTAN you would say that it is issued by the Indian officials so you will definitely disagree with me. Similarly the proof you are providing in your answer is issued by some PLA officials so how can we believe this. So you just keep amusing us with your ridiculous answer we won''t mind your mistakes.
Aditya Pratap Singh But man according to neutral sources Chinese casualties were far more higher than Indian casualties, search wiki
但是根据中立消息来源,中国人的伤亡人数远远高于印度人。看看维基百科吧。
Patrick Koh Problem is, who wrote the wiki : )
问题在于,那些维基百科的词条是谁写的。
---------------------- Shunit Datta, lives in India (2002-present) I agree with the other quorans that it was not a war but a series of localized conflicts. It is absolutely true that India defeated China in the 1967 conflict.The conflict had mainly occured because China (Peoples Liberation Army) had infiltrated into Sikkim on 1st October 1967. What followed was a series millitary clashes that took place between China and India at the end of which India was able to push out the Chinese infiltrators resulting in a Indian Victory.
---------------------- Michael Luo Yeah, India defeated China in 1962, 1967, and 1987. India will win over China forever!
是啊,印度在1962、1967和1987年都击败了中国。印度会永远击败中国。
---------------------- Jaskaran Singh Yes, india pushed back chinese forces in 1967, but i wouldnt consider it a war. It was a skirmish between both nations with minimum casualties. Although, india is not the India of 1962 anymore so is not china. In a real war, china will easily defeat india in terms of military power and economy. It is best interests of india to not to engage in any military conflict for at least few decades
---------------------- Benedicto Braz India suffered casualties of 900, China only 6, and it was reported in Indian media in 1967. However, several year later, India paid Indian DNA writers to write in Wiki to make false claims in Wiki. India lost heavily and then no more armed conflicts between India and China. until last month, June 26 2017.
Eld Sun, BSc from Univerisity of Bedfordshire (2007)(贝德福德郡大学)
yes. badly. all India army was protect by Shiva. PLA just can not won. they just can not . China will never defeat India i believe. hope India stop invade us. because if they try, they can take Beijing easily. For the Shiva~~~~~~~
---------------------- Vishnu Kumar, lives in India (1999-present) Neither chinese product nor its word has guarantee. We took control over whole Sikkim and still it is our state. PLA were recklessly forced behind and thrown out of sikkim. The PLA cooks story for its face saving. They dont allow other media or uncensored media in china so that people could not know the truth. Around 340 soldiers of chinese were killed with kess than 100 indian casualties. Its the only truth and world (except comunist party of china) accepts it. Even they massacred more than 10,000 chinese (As per world not communist party of china) on Tinamen Square but censored media and chinese govt tells only 300 were killed. Shame shame… Chinese media has only subscribers on Youtube because of those Panda videos. No body watch another news on it as they know its authenticity. We never mind what your censored chinese media tells you cooked story. The whole story from chinese are false and PLA has cooked on its own. It was a clear cut victory for India as our target ware acheived. Moreover, chinese had 4 times more casualties than india. And how can a censored media of china will report it!. And Indian govt clearly claims its victory. Chinese govt, media and PLA are only good in cooking stories. Infact they also lost war with vietnam but claims its victory. Meanwhile chinese thinks that whole world reads chinese textbooks. Shame on these type of brainwashed narrow minded chinese citizens. Before raising questions on Wikipedia, check the credibility of your own media on govt. Check how many people outside china trusts on chinese information and products. Wikipedia is the source of credible knowledge for world except china. Infact chinese govt banned wikipedia as they didnt want any source of true and credible knowledge to exist in china. Now get lost. Now please go through wikipedia. Most authentic information. Nathu La and Cho La clashes - Wikipedia
---------------------- Winters Wu all in ONE sentence:if they indians had won any war or conflict,they would not be so much more hating China than any other countries since that time till now,then all the time,all the way. no one who got victory would hate the ONE who got lose.spiritual victory cannot make u stronger. keep in peace.
---------------------- Hampton William A: Indian Media report in 1967: There was a conflict in 1967: PLA wound: 6. Indian Media report in 1970s: There was a conflict in 1967: PLA wound: 12. Indian Media report in 1980s: There was a conflict in 1967: PLA wound: 120. Indian Media report in 1990s: There was a conflict in 1967: PLA wound: 220. Indian Media report in 2000s: There was a conflict in 1967: PLA wound: 300. Indian Media report in 2010ss: There was a conflict in 1967: PLA wound: 400. .... Prediction: Indian Media report in 2020s: There was a conflict in 1967: PLA wound: 4,000.
B: Because India lost heavily again in 1967. India army: death over 200, wound: over 600. PLA death: 0, Wound: 6. The US general comments: Indian army is just like a butter, PLA is just like a hot knife. If PLA did not capture all Indian soldiers and weapons, and then returned to India in 1962 war, India would then claim India achieved a great victory against China in PLA in 1962. Similarly India would then post a question like "Why does China deny the fact that they lost the war against India in 1962". That''s why India has been good at nothing, but false claiming for the past 70 years in the world.
C: India is so amusing to make up story to amuse Indians. India lost again heavily, but it was a small conflict. It is understood that PLA won 1962. In 1967, China just started the culture revolution and preparing for the H2 bombs. Tibet had riots incited by India, CIA etc. Also Indian army knew that PLA would not fire first shot. Indian army has been exploring some small opportunities (not war, just some small fights to indicate that Indian army is able to achieve victories against PLA). So Indian army initiated the attack on PLA position: but with dead: 200, injured 540, then Indian army stopped the attack. PLA" injured: 6, death: 0, (1 dead before the conflict by the Indian soldier). To PLA, it was a small piece of cake.... no need to mention it. This kind of small conflicts happened along China and Russia border, especially along Xinjang and Russia, it happened almost every day in 1962 and 1967, believed it was Russia way to help India. Or India aligned together with the USSR to make troubles for PLA.
D: Just reveal a small secret with you: In later Korean war, it was position to positional fight between the US soldiers and PLA. For one example: PLA was defending its position from the US'' attack from air, ground troops with over 500 soldiers. PLA was defending with 8 PLA soldiers (well prepared as it was mountains areas). After 12 hours fights: All PLA dead: 8 US casualties: death 200, wound over 300. PLA finally lost its position to US, and the survived US surprised that there were only 8 PLA in defending their position. In 1990s, the survived US soldiers went to China and ask PLA to explain what happened in that conflict as US still did not believe that there were only 8 PLA in the conflict. Now come back to 1967 conflicts. PLA knew that Indian army would attack PLA position one way or another (small war), as Indian government wanted to give moral to Indians, remember Indian army were scared to death to PLA. So you then know what happened. Indian casualties: Death 200, Wound 540 PLA casualties: Death: 0, wound 6. Indian army never experienced any serious and tough combats fights, as one US general said: Indian army is just like a butter and PLA is just like a hot knife. Do not boast how hard the butter is, it is just a butter.
E: In 1967, it was Indian army only attempted revenge over the loss of 1962! Difference between 1967 and 1962. In 1962, PLA was offensive. In 1967, Indian army was offensive. PLA was defending its position. Indian army suffered heavy casualties and stopped offensive action. Since then, there has been no more conflicts with casualties on both sides. PLA retreated 20 km from the original line after the short 1962 war. Indian government and army would announce the great victory over PLA and killed over 10,000 PLA, evidence was that PLA run away even 20 km from the original line, if PLA did not tape it. Indian government, army and media desperately need a so called victory over PLA, and thus initiated a short attack, but with: Indian casualties: Death: 200, wound: over 500 PLA casualties: Death: 0, wound: 6. India paid India-origin to write so called victories in internet to fool Indians. Anyway, India has been well known to have the freedom of making false claim. That''s why India and West have banned the Australia journalist report on the true India and China war for over 50 years! (For those who are able to read in Chinese, you may check 1967 conflicts between India and India in Chinese media (it was simply half page to indicate that there was a conflict and casualties on both sides as it was not a big news in China).
F: Love to see Indian government to fool Indians for decades. India tried the only revenge on PLA position, but suffered heavy loss. And then India had given up and surrendered since 1967. However, India made up so called victory against PLA in 1967. If you look at Indian media in 1967, it stated that PLA wound 6. Then slowing Indian media as always exaggerated the figure: 6, then 12 Recently, 200 and even 300. By year 2025, the Indian media would say that PLA casualties, 3000 Poor India.
G: In 1962, India knew clearly who were commanders and leaders of PLA in the conflict. In 1967, the writers even did not know who were the field commanders and leaders of the PLA for the 1967 conflict. Thus just simply put Mao Zedong. Low IQ Indians and the writers even did not know how to lie. (for example, there is a border shooting between Pakistan and India army now, Pakistan field commander are “Mosign”, however, Indian border field commander is unknown, thus it is Modi!) India took five years to attack PLA position, but even today still do not know who were the commander and leaders of PLA whom they fought with in 1967!!!