How did The Silk Road Actually Work?
纪录片：古代丝绸之路是如何运作的？
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纪录片：古代丝绸之路是如何运作的？（上）
How did The Silk Road Actually Work?
2022-04-29
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译文简介
一个非常引人入胜的故事。讲述了丝绸之路是如何建立的，以及各行各业的产品都是通过中国进出口到一些欧洲国家。
正文翻译
How did The Silk Road Actually Work?
纪录片：古代丝绸之路是如何运作的？
评论翻译
napolien 1
If I remember correctly the Ottomans didn't shut the silk road to Europe but they demanded more money for it and only the Venetians can trade with them thus allowing venice a monopoly on trades to Europe which in return angered the Europeans which allowed their travels to find new roads
如果我没记错的话，奥斯曼人并没有关闭通往欧洲的丝绸之路，但是他们要求更多的钱。
并且只有威尼斯人可以与他们进行贸易，从而使威尼斯垄断了与欧洲的贸易，这反过来激怒了欧洲人，让他们通过旅行找到新的道路。
Billy Gr
Yes something like this happened. You are right
是的，像这样的事情发生了。你是对的。
Z Rus
yep,, this story more plausible and believable.
是的，这个故事更可信。
Sandro Alípio
and then the Portuguese were like "alright no problem, let´s go all the way around Africa"
然后葡萄牙人说“好吧，没问题，我们绕着非洲走一圈吧。”
James m Eppler
@Sandro Alípio it did help that the pope gave half the world to Portugal, which included most of Venice claims
这使得教皇把半个世界给了葡萄牙，其中包括威尼斯声索的大部分领土。
Sandro Alípio
@James m Eppler it was the other way around the Treaty of Tordesillas was signed half a century after the Ottomans took Constantinople and the Portuguese was already going around Africa and making new trade posts and colonies
恰恰相反。
《托德西拉斯条约》是在奥斯曼帝国占领君士坦丁堡半个世纪后签订的。
而那时葡萄牙人已经在非洲各地建立了新的贸易站和殖民地。
ZD
@James m Eppler The treaty applied to colonial territories, not Europe
该条约适用于殖民地，而不适用于欧洲。
Kya Karu Vlogs
That's why there were no Italian colonists.
这就是为什么没有意大利殖民地。
Y
Why would the Ottomans only allow Venice to trade with them? Didn't they fight a bunch of times?
为什么奥斯曼人只允许威尼斯和他们贸易?他们不是打过很多次架吗?
SZ Typetto
@1SLON1 - Portuguese and Spanish Empires declined pretty much by the 18th century, about 3 centuries ago. By the 19th century they were declining Empires, becoming targets for other Empires to bully. A couple factors can be attributed to the decline of Portugal and Spain: small population, small military, unable to develop colonial assets beyond exploitation of resources etc. These reasons are all too familiar to the Empires of Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Russia, Poland (technically a commonwealth with Lithuania), Italy, Belgium, Ottoman.
葡萄牙和西班牙帝国在大约3个世纪前的18世纪已经衰落了很多。到了19世纪，他们成为衰落的帝国，成为其他帝国欺负的目标。葡萄牙和西班牙的衰落可以归因于几个因素:人口少，军队小，无法开发殖民资产，资源开发等。
这些原因对瑞典、丹麦、奥地利、俄罗斯、波兰(技术上与立陶宛是联邦)、意大利、比利时和奥斯曼帝国来说都太熟悉了。
Not Your business
@1SLON1 They fought wars to keep their Colonies, but the rebels were supported by Cuba, China and the Soviet unx while Portugal was pretty much on their own.
他们通过战争来保住自己的殖民地，但叛军得到了古巴、中国和苏联的支持，而葡萄牙几乎只能靠自己。
Sandro Alípio
@1SLON1 Portugal was actually the last european countries to leave its African colonies due of being under a dictactorship when Portugal got democracy again, it gave all colonies independence even the ones it could kept easily like Cape Verde, Timor Leste or Sao Tome e Principe
葡萄牙实际上是最后一个因为独裁统治而离开非洲殖民地的欧洲国家。
当葡萄牙再次获得民主时，它给予所有殖民地独立，即使是那些它可以轻易维持的殖民地，如佛得角、东帝汶或圣多美普林西比。
S S
@SZ Typetto You do realize even today there is a cost to pass airplanes/trains through different country. In fact US/Russian/Chinese airspace is very expensive to fly through.
你知道即使在今天，通过飞机或火车经过不同的国家也是有成本的。事实上，美国、俄罗斯和中国领空的飞行成本非常昂贵。
SZ Typetto
@S S - True. Yet all 3 of those countries have far more to contribute to the world than collect toll fees. Wouldn't you agree to that?
是的。
然而，这三个国家对世界的贡献远不止收取通行费。对吧?
Trevor H
@1SLON1 The Dutch have managed to hold onto those islands because, well, there's no reason for those islands to leave. It's the same reason that the other former colonial powers still hold onto their overseas territories: why leave something good and likely end up becoming worse? So the islands remained apart of the Dutch, also in part due to the several centuries of control over them. Portugal never fostered such ideals. All of their colonies were either taken with force by newly freed colonial nations like India and China, won independence wars while they were supported by the Soviet unx like Angola and Mozambique, or they were just forced to cede the territories due to international pressure like Guinea-Bissau.
荷兰人成功地保住了这些岛屿，因为，嗯，这些岛屿没有理由离开。这也是其他前殖民国家仍然坚守海外领土的原因:
为什么要抛下一些好的东西，并且可能会因此而变得更糟?因此，这些岛屿一直是荷兰人的一部分，部分原因是荷兰人对它们的控制长达几个世纪。葡萄牙从未孕育过这样的理想。
他们所有的殖民地要么被新解放的殖民国家如印度和中国用武力夺取，要么在苏联的支持下赢得了独立战争，如安哥拉和莫桑比克，或者是迫于国际压力，像几内亚比绍那样被迫割让领土。
Furkan Yavuz
In fact, the Ottoman custom policy was not much different from the previous rulers' policies in the region. When the Ottomans took over the region, the Catholic Europeans were already looking for a trade route because it started a long time ago. The Ottoman expansion accelerated the process because, in the European eyes, the Ottomans were a real threat that could invade all of Europe.
事实上，奥斯曼帝国的风俗政策与之前统治者在该地区的政策并没有太大的不同。当奥斯曼人占领该地区时，信奉天主教的欧洲人已经在寻找贸易路线了，因为这条路很久以前就开始了。
奥斯曼帝国的扩张加速了这一进程，因为在欧洲人看来，奥斯曼人是一个真正的威胁，可以入侵整个欧洲。
Googane
The technology and ideas that travelled along the silk road alone shaped history as we know it. The impact of the silk road is incredibly underrated.
沿着丝绸之路传播的技术和思想塑造了我们所知的历史。丝绸之路的影响被严重低估了。
God
I think it's actually overrated. The silk road was very important indeed, but many others have been used over the centuries and most of the people don't seem to really bother that much. Sometimes in history things get an importance much more from feelings towards a matter than by what they actually did. The Atlantic trade routes in the colonization of Americas for example, were insane and don't get as much attention, only Brazil in aprox 250 years bought about as many slaves from Africa as the Roman Empire have had on over a thousand (both about 5 million people, not counting the ones that had died on Sea).
我认为它实际上被高估了。
丝绸之路确实非常重要，但许多其他的贸易路线也已经被使用了几个世纪，大多数人似乎真的不那么在意。在历史上，有时事情的重要性更多地来自于对一件事情的感觉，而不是他们实际做了什么。
例如，在美洲殖民时期，大西洋的贸易路线是极其繁荣的，但没有得到太多的关注。仅巴西在大约250年的时间里从非洲购买的奴隶数量就与罗马帝国在过去1000年里购买的奴隶数量相当(两个国家都有大约500万人，不包括死在海上的人)。
slickp
@God HAhahaha what you have said (Atlantic trade routes) was a direct result of the silk road... but saying its overrated.. facepalm..
哈哈，你说的(大西洋贸易路线)是丝绸之路的直接结果，但它被你被高估了/扶额
QWE RTY
@slickp atlantic trade routes were not result of silk road. it was result of ottoman dominating eastern mediterranean
大西洋贸易之路不是丝绸之路的产物。这是奥斯曼帝国统治东地中海的结果。
Park Yamato
@QWE RTY yeah becuz Europeans didn't have the access of the skill road and Indian spices lol
是的，因为欧洲人没有途径获取中国的丝绸和印度的香料，哈哈
T4NG0M4N
People talk about silk road all the time. Can't count the amount of times I've heard people discussing it. Definitely not underrated, not saying it's overrated. It's discussed quite a fair amount amongst historians and people who like history in general. Sure I wouldn't expect any random person you encounter on the street to know about it, but I wouldn't expect them to know anything else about history either.
人们一直在谈论丝绸之路。我已经记不清多少次听到人们讨论这个问题了。绝对不是低估，也不是高估。历史学家和喜欢历史的人都在讨论这个问题。
当然，我不期待你在街上遇到的任何一个人都会知道它，但我也不期待他们会知晓其他的历史知识。
Dewayne Condra
@Kiab Toom Lauj what a load of crap...
真是一派胡言……
syncmaster915n
@Dewayne Condra Those who are pro-European are the ones who are full of crap! Prior to the dawn of 19th century, 2 civilizations dominated the world in terms of population size and wealth and they were the India and China. No matter how much the Europeans traded among themselves and with the new world and other conquered places, the volume of trade was only a percentage of what were being traded internally in these 2 civilizations. Go look it up dude, at that point in time, both China's and India's economies combined occupied more than 60% of world's GDP.
那些亲欧的人都是满嘴胡话的人！在19世纪之前，有两个文明在人口规模和财富方面主宰着世界，它们是印度和中国。
无论欧洲人与新大陆和其他被征服地区之间的贸易规模有多大，其贸易量只占这两个文明内部贸易总量的一小部分。去查查吧，在那个时候，中国和印度的经济加起来占据了世界GDP的60%以上。
Proger 19
@Dewayne Condra Without Eastern inventions , Europeans couldn’t have known the basics to start with Simple logic that you don’t want to accept
如果没有东方的发明，欧洲人连最基本的东西都不会知道。
这是你不想接受的简单事实。
strong brain
@Dewayne Condra Why the fuck Columbus tried so hard to find new route to the East, and even named American natives indians? because european's lifes and wealth were so depending on the trades with the East.
为什么特么的哥伦布这么努力地寻找通往东方的新航线，甚至称美洲土著为“印度人”（Indians）?
因为欧洲人的生活和财富依赖于与东方的贸易。
SaveAChildKillACaucroach
Not all, just almost all ancient technologies. Many modern ones were done in Europe. But before the 1500s most of Europe was literally full of illiterate tribe’s
不是所有，但几乎所有的古代技术都是。许多现代作品都是在欧洲完成的。
但在16世纪之前，欧洲大部分地区都是文盲部落。
Anzar M.A
@syncmaster915n dont forget the middle east. They started civilizations. Were the main part of the world till greeks with china coming up sometimes when a power falls. Middle east shaped a lot of present day india. They gathered all knowledge from around the world after greek era and became the main power and everything again. They held the main part as the traders of the silk route. Something that arabs haven't lost even though they lost their sense in everything including religion and science.
别忘了中东，他们开启了文明，曾经是世界的主要部分，直到希腊和中国出现，才开始衰落。中东在很大程度上塑造了今天的印度。
希腊时代之后，他们从世界各地收集了所有的知识，并再次成为主要的力量。他们是丝绸之路的主要商人。即使阿拉伯人失去了一切，包括宗教和科学，他们也不会失去这些东西。
Julian Marsh
@God The Roman Empire had more than 5 million slaves over its long life. As for the Silk Road, it depends on how you visualize it. There are the main routes and then lots of spurs that run to and from it. If one is defining it as a route connecting East and West, its origins may well go back to Babylonian times. So to say it is overrated as 'many others have been used over the centuries' suggests the Silk Road is not overrated but simply that some of the others have been underrated. Trade in general is underrated because most historians from Herodotus to our own time undervalue the importance of trade (though this was more true in ancient times when traders were looked upon as agents of change re: mostly static societies).
在罗马帝国漫长的历史中，有超过500万的奴隶。至于丝绸之路，这取决于你如何看待它。这里有主要的路线，还有许多从丝绸之路分流出来的支路。
如果把它定义为一条连接东西方的道路，那么它的起源很可能要追溯到巴比伦时代。所以说就因为 “几个世纪以来还有很多其他的贸易路线被使用过”，所以声称丝绸之后被高估了，这表明丝绸之路并没有被高估，只是其他一些贸易路线被低估了而已。
总的来说，贸易被低估了，因为从希罗多德到我们这个时代的大多数历史学家都低估了贸易的重要性(尽管在古代，贸易者被视为变革的代理人，毕竟当时大多数社会都是静态的)。
roblinssen88
Question: how many days (approximately) did it take for a trader to travel over land from Southern Song to, say, Amsterdam, Paris or Madrid? Surely it can't be that long if the reverse path is used to trade fruit?
问:一个商人从南宋走陆路到阿姆斯特丹、巴黎或马德里大约需要多少天?如果用反向路径交易水果，肯定不会那么久吧?
Utsav Jha
It took years. I don't know exact number
需要数年时间，我不知道确切的数字。
LeadHarsh06
@Utsav Jha yeah most likely. They probably used fruits that might not rot easily, not that I can think of a example right now.
是的，很有可能。他们可能用的是不易腐烂的水果，但我一时半会儿想不出能有什么。
Albanoi Mapping
@LeadHarsh06 Or maybe they used seeds and planted them in Asian soil when reached the destination. I think it’s more logical…
或者他们用种子，到达目的地后把它们种在亚洲的土壤里。我认为这更符合逻辑……
Dalton
@LeadHarsh06 the fruit back then would be significantly different than the fruit today. Less nutrition and more layers the older generations of fruit had. Maybe fruit lasted longer? The fruit we see today didn’t start coming into existence until the late 1800s and early 1900s. Stuff like yellow bananas and watermelon with a completely edible inside
那时的水果和今天的水果有很大的不同。古代的水果营养更少，果皮更厚，所以也许水果的保质期更长?
我们今天看到的水果直到19世纪末20世纪初才出现。比如黄香蕉和西瓜，里面全都可以吃。
OutnBacker
Dried or otherwise preserved fruit. Long lasting preserves were common foods. Also, seeds.
干果或其他蜜饯水果。长期保存的蜜饯是常见的食物。此外，种子也可以。
Bejaardenbus
Well, it doesn't mean that fruit grown in China would end up in Europe, or vise versa. They traded it along the route, so it could be relatively close to them.
但这并不意味着中国种植的水果最终会进入欧洲，反之亦然。
他们沿着这条路线交易，所以它可能离他们比较近。
Sniper2008009
They preserved the fruit, either by drying/dehydrating it of fluids, pickling, putting spices on it or by salting it. Just because people didn't have refrigerators back then doesn't mean they didn't have ways to preserve food.
他们通过干燥/脱水、腌渍、放香料或用盐来保存水果。那时候人们没有冰箱并不意味着他们没有保存食物的方法。
roblinssen88
@Christian Cecena Trading seeds would be a bad call. Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and you'll teach him how to eat for years. Sell them the seeds and soon enough they won't buy anything from you anymore. That's why the Chinese didn't want anyone to be able to make the silk either. Selling seeds would be a very silly thing to do from a commercial point of view.
交易种子将是一个糟糕的决定。给一个人一条鱼，够他吃一天；教他如何钓鱼，你将教会他够吃很多年。
把种子卖给他们，很快他们就不会再从你这里买任何东西了。这就是为什么中国人不希望任何人能够制造丝绸。从商业的角度来看，卖种子是一件非常愚蠢的事情。
Kayi Warrior
Last month I had to research about the silk road for my own presentation and I found that it took 6 months to travel from Gyeongju, Korea to Constantinople
上个月，我为自己的演讲研究了丝绸之路，发现从韩国庆州到君士坦丁堡需要6个月的时间。
KaiGonGinn
No one would ever make such a journey, and if they did, little of the cargo would ever make it the whole way. Marco Polo's father was more of an explorer when he went east, and if your read the book you'd realize how treacherous it could be to travel so far in a foreign land, though he does embelish some things. As far as fruit, I believe it's more like the trees themselves radiated out of where they were planted along the silk road. Most fruit trees come from asia one way or another. Merchants might have had house in two cities they travelled between, and planted orchards in both, so gradually the fruit travelled along the routes as othe rmerchants carried and planted them step by step. However, many of these fruit trees had already radiated out of their point of origin long before the silk road, such as pomegrantates and apples.
没有人会进行这样的旅行，即使他们这样做了，也很少有货物能全程运输。当马可波罗的父亲去东方时，他更多的是一个探险家，如果你读这本书，你会意识到在异国他乡旅行这么远是多么危险，尽管他确实对其中一些经历做了润饰。
至于水果，我认为更像是树木本身辐射到它们种植在丝绸之路上的地方。大多数果树都来自亚洲。商人们可能在他们来往的两座城市都有房子，并且都在这两座城市里种了果园。因此，水果就像商人们一步一步地搬运和种植一样，慢慢地沿着这条路传播开来。
不过，这些果树中有许多早在丝绸之路出现之前就已经从原产地辐射出去了，比如石榴和苹果。
Airelhach
Before the conquest of Constantinople, trade to Europe through Silkroad was mainly done by Genoese and Venetian traders. After the conquest, Ottomans dispelled Genoese traders from their ports and banned them from trading goods as well, because of the help Genoese provided to Byzantium in the siege (they had sent their fleet to blockade the golden horn, if I'm not mistaken). To damage Geneose in Mediterranean even more, Ottomans gave Venetian traders -competitors of Genoese - privileges in trading. Any other foreign trader had to pay much more taxes contary to their Venetian counterparts. That said, trading goods from Venetians was almost much more cheaper than paying taxes to Ottomans. The first capitulation in Ottomans' history, later they gave such and more privileges to French in Suleiman's reign.
在君士坦丁堡被征服之前，通过丝绸之路与欧洲的贸易主要由热那亚和威尼斯商人完成。征服之后，奥斯曼人将热那亚商人驱逐出他们的港口，并禁止他们进行货物贸易，因为热那亚人在围城期间为拜占庭提供了帮助。
为了进一步破坏地中海的热那亚，奥斯曼帝国给了威尼斯商人——热那亚的竞争对手——贸易特权。其他任何外国贸易商都必须支付比威尼斯同行多得多的税。
也就是说，从威尼斯人那里交易商品比向奥斯曼人缴税便宜得多。后来在苏莱曼统治时期，他们给了法国更多的特权。
Nenenin Donu
Ottomans didnt just completely shut down the Silk Road rather they demanded enormous taxes that led to its decease, eventually triggering the age of European expansion
奥斯曼人并没有完全关闭丝绸之路，而是要求巨额税收，导致了丝绸之路的灭亡，最终引发了欧洲扩张时代。
Chris Whinery
Yeah, that makes more sense. It would make no sense for them to just shut it down entirely if they thought they could profit off of it instead. Why would they even do that? What's the motivation? It makes more sense that they just weren't that business savvy and as a result got too greedy with their taxation, introducing enough friction into the system that it finally became easier for the Europeans to seek their own routes where before it wasn't worth the cost and they just paid the markup.
是啊，这样说更有道理。如果他们认为可以从中获利，那么完全关闭它就没有意义了。他们为什么要这么做?动机是什么?
更说得通的是，他们没有商业头脑，结果在税收上变得太贪婪，给这套贸易体系制造了太多的障碍，使得欧洲人最终找寻自己的航线变得更可行。
SZ Typetto
@Chris Whinery , a lot of people get confused by the use of vocabulary regarding the Ottoman control of trade routes to the East. Core reason behind that is most speakers aren't proficient in English. So they substitute words they use from their own language, which in itself may not be entirely accurate. For clarity - the Ottomans maintained a monopoly on the trade routes, extorting heavy prices. Those who couldn't pay or wanted to compete on the same trade routes, where shut down through warfare, piracy or banning access. There are some idiots who will come here to defend the Ottomans with their convoluted beliefs, portraying it like a fantastical Empire like Gondor that progressed in Science, Culture, etc. But all the Ottomans did was piggyback on the developments of the Selucid and Byzantine. As the Ottomans no longer continued investing in those areas, or rather never invested there to begin with whatever remnants of scholars, thinkers, and craftsmen that existed, simply died or migrated.
很多人对奥斯曼帝国控制东方贸易路线的词汇感到困惑。这背后的核心原因是大多数说英语的人都不精通英语。所以他们用自己语言中的词来代替，这本身可能并不完全准确。
澄清一下，奥斯曼人在贸易路线上保持着垄断，敲诈勒索高昂的价格。那些付不起钱或想要在同一条贸易路线上竞争的人，因为战争、海盗或禁止进入而关闭。
有些白痴会带着他们错综复杂的信仰来这里捍卫奥斯曼帝国，把它描绘成一个像刚铎一样在科学、文化等方面不断进步的幻想帝国。但奥斯曼人所做的一切只是借用了塞琉西德和拜占庭的发展。
由于奥斯曼人不再继续在这些地区投资，或者更确切地说，从一开始就没有在那里投资，所以那些曾经存在的学者、思想家和工匠们，要么死了，要么移民了。
Depek The Great
An extremely so fascinating story of how the Silk Road was being built for mainly the trading of almost all the sectors to be exported and imported via China to some of the respective European countries and I am extremely so happy to see the construction workers to build that road of variety routes to save cost,good friends!!!:-D
一个非常引人入胜的故事。讲述了丝绸之路是如何建立的，以及各行各业的产品都是通过中国进出口到一些欧洲国家。
我非常高兴看到工人们建造各种道路以便节省成本的做法，好朋友!/笑
原文地址：https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-pfeFbssMw
If I remember correctly the Ottomans didn't shut the silk road to Europe but they demanded more money for it and only the Venetians can trade with them thus allowing venice a monopoly on trades to Europe which in return angered the Europeans which allowed their travels to find new roads
如果我没记错的话，奥斯曼人并没有关闭通往欧洲的丝绸之路，但是他们要求更多的钱。
并且只有威尼斯人可以与他们进行贸易，从而使威尼斯垄断了与欧洲的贸易，这反过来激怒了欧洲人，让他们通过旅行找到新的道路。
Billy Gr
Yes something like this happened. You are right
是的，像这样的事情发生了。你是对的。
Z Rus
yep,, this story more plausible and believable.
是的，这个故事更可信。
Sandro Alípio
and then the Portuguese were like "alright no problem, let´s go all the way around Africa"
然后葡萄牙人说“好吧，没问题，我们绕着非洲走一圈吧。”
James m Eppler
@Sandro Alípio it did help that the pope gave half the world to Portugal, which included most of Venice claims
这使得教皇把半个世界给了葡萄牙，其中包括威尼斯声索的大部分领土。
Sandro Alípio
@James m Eppler it was the other way around the Treaty of Tordesillas was signed half a century after the Ottomans took Constantinople and the Portuguese was already going around Africa and making new trade posts and colonies
恰恰相反。
《托德西拉斯条约》是在奥斯曼帝国占领君士坦丁堡半个世纪后签订的。
而那时葡萄牙人已经在非洲各地建立了新的贸易站和殖民地。
ZD
@James m Eppler The treaty applied to colonial territories, not Europe
该条约适用于殖民地，而不适用于欧洲。
Kya Karu Vlogs
That's why there were no Italian colonists.
这就是为什么没有意大利殖民地。
Y
Why would the Ottomans only allow Venice to trade with them? Didn't they fight a bunch of times?
为什么奥斯曼人只允许威尼斯和他们贸易?他们不是打过很多次架吗?
SZ Typetto
@1SLON1 - Portuguese and Spanish Empires declined pretty much by the 18th century, about 3 centuries ago. By the 19th century they were declining Empires, becoming targets for other Empires to bully. A couple factors can be attributed to the decline of Portugal and Spain: small population, small military, unable to develop colonial assets beyond exploitation of resources etc. These reasons are all too familiar to the Empires of Sweden, Denmark, Austria, Russia, Poland (technically a commonwealth with Lithuania), Italy, Belgium, Ottoman.
葡萄牙和西班牙帝国在大约3个世纪前的18世纪已经衰落了很多。到了19世纪，他们成为衰落的帝国，成为其他帝国欺负的目标。葡萄牙和西班牙的衰落可以归因于几个因素:人口少，军队小，无法开发殖民资产，资源开发等。
这些原因对瑞典、丹麦、奥地利、俄罗斯、波兰(技术上与立陶宛是联邦)、意大利、比利时和奥斯曼帝国来说都太熟悉了。
Not Your business
@1SLON1 They fought wars to keep their Colonies, but the rebels were supported by Cuba, China and the Soviet unx while Portugal was pretty much on their own.
他们通过战争来保住自己的殖民地，但叛军得到了古巴、中国和苏联的支持，而葡萄牙几乎只能靠自己。
Sandro Alípio
@1SLON1 Portugal was actually the last european countries to leave its African colonies due of being under a dictactorship when Portugal got democracy again, it gave all colonies independence even the ones it could kept easily like Cape Verde, Timor Leste or Sao Tome e Principe
葡萄牙实际上是最后一个因为独裁统治而离开非洲殖民地的欧洲国家。
当葡萄牙再次获得民主时，它给予所有殖民地独立，即使是那些它可以轻易维持的殖民地，如佛得角、东帝汶或圣多美普林西比。
S S
@SZ Typetto You do realize even today there is a cost to pass airplanes/trains through different country. In fact US/Russian/Chinese airspace is very expensive to fly through.
你知道即使在今天，通过飞机或火车经过不同的国家也是有成本的。事实上，美国、俄罗斯和中国领空的飞行成本非常昂贵。
SZ Typetto
@S S - True. Yet all 3 of those countries have far more to contribute to the world than collect toll fees. Wouldn't you agree to that?
是的。
然而，这三个国家对世界的贡献远不止收取通行费。对吧?
Trevor H
@1SLON1 The Dutch have managed to hold onto those islands because, well, there's no reason for those islands to leave. It's the same reason that the other former colonial powers still hold onto their overseas territories: why leave something good and likely end up becoming worse? So the islands remained apart of the Dutch, also in part due to the several centuries of control over them. Portugal never fostered such ideals. All of their colonies were either taken with force by newly freed colonial nations like India and China, won independence wars while they were supported by the Soviet unx like Angola and Mozambique, or they were just forced to cede the territories due to international pressure like Guinea-Bissau.
荷兰人成功地保住了这些岛屿，因为，嗯，这些岛屿没有理由离开。这也是其他前殖民国家仍然坚守海外领土的原因:
为什么要抛下一些好的东西，并且可能会因此而变得更糟?因此，这些岛屿一直是荷兰人的一部分，部分原因是荷兰人对它们的控制长达几个世纪。葡萄牙从未孕育过这样的理想。
他们所有的殖民地要么被新解放的殖民国家如印度和中国用武力夺取，要么在苏联的支持下赢得了独立战争，如安哥拉和莫桑比克，或者是迫于国际压力，像几内亚比绍那样被迫割让领土。
Furkan Yavuz
In fact, the Ottoman custom policy was not much different from the previous rulers' policies in the region. When the Ottomans took over the region, the Catholic Europeans were already looking for a trade route because it started a long time ago. The Ottoman expansion accelerated the process because, in the European eyes, the Ottomans were a real threat that could invade all of Europe.
事实上，奥斯曼帝国的风俗政策与之前统治者在该地区的政策并没有太大的不同。当奥斯曼人占领该地区时，信奉天主教的欧洲人已经在寻找贸易路线了，因为这条路很久以前就开始了。
奥斯曼帝国的扩张加速了这一进程，因为在欧洲人看来，奥斯曼人是一个真正的威胁，可以入侵整个欧洲。
Googane
The technology and ideas that travelled along the silk road alone shaped history as we know it. The impact of the silk road is incredibly underrated.
沿着丝绸之路传播的技术和思想塑造了我们所知的历史。丝绸之路的影响被严重低估了。
God
I think it's actually overrated. The silk road was very important indeed, but many others have been used over the centuries and most of the people don't seem to really bother that much. Sometimes in history things get an importance much more from feelings towards a matter than by what they actually did. The Atlantic trade routes in the colonization of Americas for example, were insane and don't get as much attention, only Brazil in aprox 250 years bought about as many slaves from Africa as the Roman Empire have had on over a thousand (both about 5 million people, not counting the ones that had died on Sea).
我认为它实际上被高估了。
丝绸之路确实非常重要，但许多其他的贸易路线也已经被使用了几个世纪，大多数人似乎真的不那么在意。在历史上，有时事情的重要性更多地来自于对一件事情的感觉，而不是他们实际做了什么。
例如，在美洲殖民时期，大西洋的贸易路线是极其繁荣的，但没有得到太多的关注。仅巴西在大约250年的时间里从非洲购买的奴隶数量就与罗马帝国在过去1000年里购买的奴隶数量相当(两个国家都有大约500万人，不包括死在海上的人)。
slickp
@God HAhahaha what you have said (Atlantic trade routes) was a direct result of the silk road... but saying its overrated.. facepalm..
哈哈，你说的(大西洋贸易路线)是丝绸之路的直接结果，但它被你被高估了/扶额
QWE RTY
@slickp atlantic trade routes were not result of silk road. it was result of ottoman dominating eastern mediterranean
大西洋贸易之路不是丝绸之路的产物。这是奥斯曼帝国统治东地中海的结果。
Park Yamato
@QWE RTY yeah becuz Europeans didn't have the access of the skill road and Indian spices lol
是的，因为欧洲人没有途径获取中国的丝绸和印度的香料，哈哈
T4NG0M4N
People talk about silk road all the time. Can't count the amount of times I've heard people discussing it. Definitely not underrated, not saying it's overrated. It's discussed quite a fair amount amongst historians and people who like history in general. Sure I wouldn't expect any random person you encounter on the street to know about it, but I wouldn't expect them to know anything else about history either.
人们一直在谈论丝绸之路。我已经记不清多少次听到人们讨论这个问题了。绝对不是低估，也不是高估。历史学家和喜欢历史的人都在讨论这个问题。
当然，我不期待你在街上遇到的任何一个人都会知道它，但我也不期待他们会知晓其他的历史知识。
Dewayne Condra
@Kiab Toom Lauj what a load of crap...
真是一派胡言……
syncmaster915n
@Dewayne Condra Those who are pro-European are the ones who are full of crap! Prior to the dawn of 19th century, 2 civilizations dominated the world in terms of population size and wealth and they were the India and China. No matter how much the Europeans traded among themselves and with the new world and other conquered places, the volume of trade was only a percentage of what were being traded internally in these 2 civilizations. Go look it up dude, at that point in time, both China's and India's economies combined occupied more than 60% of world's GDP.
那些亲欧的人都是满嘴胡话的人！在19世纪之前，有两个文明在人口规模和财富方面主宰着世界，它们是印度和中国。
无论欧洲人与新大陆和其他被征服地区之间的贸易规模有多大，其贸易量只占这两个文明内部贸易总量的一小部分。去查查吧，在那个时候，中国和印度的经济加起来占据了世界GDP的60%以上。
Proger 19
@Dewayne Condra Without Eastern inventions , Europeans couldn’t have known the basics to start with Simple logic that you don’t want to accept
如果没有东方的发明，欧洲人连最基本的东西都不会知道。
这是你不想接受的简单事实。
strong brain
@Dewayne Condra Why the fuck Columbus tried so hard to find new route to the East, and even named American natives indians? because european's lifes and wealth were so depending on the trades with the East.
为什么特么的哥伦布这么努力地寻找通往东方的新航线，甚至称美洲土著为“印度人”（Indians）?
因为欧洲人的生活和财富依赖于与东方的贸易。
SaveAChildKillACaucroach
Not all, just almost all ancient technologies. Many modern ones were done in Europe. But before the 1500s most of Europe was literally full of illiterate tribe’s
不是所有，但几乎所有的古代技术都是。许多现代作品都是在欧洲完成的。
但在16世纪之前，欧洲大部分地区都是文盲部落。
Anzar M.A
@syncmaster915n dont forget the middle east. They started civilizations. Were the main part of the world till greeks with china coming up sometimes when a power falls. Middle east shaped a lot of present day india. They gathered all knowledge from around the world after greek era and became the main power and everything again. They held the main part as the traders of the silk route. Something that arabs haven't lost even though they lost their sense in everything including religion and science.
别忘了中东，他们开启了文明，曾经是世界的主要部分，直到希腊和中国出现，才开始衰落。中东在很大程度上塑造了今天的印度。
希腊时代之后，他们从世界各地收集了所有的知识，并再次成为主要的力量。他们是丝绸之路的主要商人。即使阿拉伯人失去了一切，包括宗教和科学，他们也不会失去这些东西。
Julian Marsh
@God The Roman Empire had more than 5 million slaves over its long life. As for the Silk Road, it depends on how you visualize it. There are the main routes and then lots of spurs that run to and from it. If one is defining it as a route connecting East and West, its origins may well go back to Babylonian times. So to say it is overrated as 'many others have been used over the centuries' suggests the Silk Road is not overrated but simply that some of the others have been underrated. Trade in general is underrated because most historians from Herodotus to our own time undervalue the importance of trade (though this was more true in ancient times when traders were looked upon as agents of change re: mostly static societies).
在罗马帝国漫长的历史中，有超过500万的奴隶。至于丝绸之路，这取决于你如何看待它。这里有主要的路线，还有许多从丝绸之路分流出来的支路。
如果把它定义为一条连接东西方的道路，那么它的起源很可能要追溯到巴比伦时代。所以说就因为 “几个世纪以来还有很多其他的贸易路线被使用过”，所以声称丝绸之后被高估了，这表明丝绸之路并没有被高估，只是其他一些贸易路线被低估了而已。
总的来说，贸易被低估了，因为从希罗多德到我们这个时代的大多数历史学家都低估了贸易的重要性(尽管在古代，贸易者被视为变革的代理人，毕竟当时大多数社会都是静态的)。
roblinssen88
Question: how many days (approximately) did it take for a trader to travel over land from Southern Song to, say, Amsterdam, Paris or Madrid? Surely it can't be that long if the reverse path is used to trade fruit?
问:一个商人从南宋走陆路到阿姆斯特丹、巴黎或马德里大约需要多少天?如果用反向路径交易水果，肯定不会那么久吧?
Utsav Jha
It took years. I don't know exact number
需要数年时间，我不知道确切的数字。
LeadHarsh06
@Utsav Jha yeah most likely. They probably used fruits that might not rot easily, not that I can think of a example right now.
是的，很有可能。他们可能用的是不易腐烂的水果，但我一时半会儿想不出能有什么。
Albanoi Mapping
@LeadHarsh06 Or maybe they used seeds and planted them in Asian soil when reached the destination. I think it’s more logical…
或者他们用种子，到达目的地后把它们种在亚洲的土壤里。我认为这更符合逻辑……
Dalton
@LeadHarsh06 the fruit back then would be significantly different than the fruit today. Less nutrition and more layers the older generations of fruit had. Maybe fruit lasted longer? The fruit we see today didn’t start coming into existence until the late 1800s and early 1900s. Stuff like yellow bananas and watermelon with a completely edible inside
那时的水果和今天的水果有很大的不同。古代的水果营养更少，果皮更厚，所以也许水果的保质期更长?
我们今天看到的水果直到19世纪末20世纪初才出现。比如黄香蕉和西瓜，里面全都可以吃。
OutnBacker
Dried or otherwise preserved fruit. Long lasting preserves were common foods. Also, seeds.
干果或其他蜜饯水果。长期保存的蜜饯是常见的食物。此外，种子也可以。
Bejaardenbus
Well, it doesn't mean that fruit grown in China would end up in Europe, or vise versa. They traded it along the route, so it could be relatively close to them.
但这并不意味着中国种植的水果最终会进入欧洲，反之亦然。
他们沿着这条路线交易，所以它可能离他们比较近。
Sniper2008009
They preserved the fruit, either by drying/dehydrating it of fluids, pickling, putting spices on it or by salting it. Just because people didn't have refrigerators back then doesn't mean they didn't have ways to preserve food.
他们通过干燥/脱水、腌渍、放香料或用盐来保存水果。那时候人们没有冰箱并不意味着他们没有保存食物的方法。
roblinssen88
@Christian Cecena Trading seeds would be a bad call. Give a man a fish and feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and you'll teach him how to eat for years. Sell them the seeds and soon enough they won't buy anything from you anymore. That's why the Chinese didn't want anyone to be able to make the silk either. Selling seeds would be a very silly thing to do from a commercial point of view.
交易种子将是一个糟糕的决定。给一个人一条鱼，够他吃一天；教他如何钓鱼，你将教会他够吃很多年。
把种子卖给他们，很快他们就不会再从你这里买任何东西了。这就是为什么中国人不希望任何人能够制造丝绸。从商业的角度来看，卖种子是一件非常愚蠢的事情。
Kayi Warrior
Last month I had to research about the silk road for my own presentation and I found that it took 6 months to travel from Gyeongju, Korea to Constantinople
上个月，我为自己的演讲研究了丝绸之路，发现从韩国庆州到君士坦丁堡需要6个月的时间。
KaiGonGinn
No one would ever make such a journey, and if they did, little of the cargo would ever make it the whole way. Marco Polo's father was more of an explorer when he went east, and if your read the book you'd realize how treacherous it could be to travel so far in a foreign land, though he does embelish some things. As far as fruit, I believe it's more like the trees themselves radiated out of where they were planted along the silk road. Most fruit trees come from asia one way or another. Merchants might have had house in two cities they travelled between, and planted orchards in both, so gradually the fruit travelled along the routes as othe rmerchants carried and planted them step by step. However, many of these fruit trees had already radiated out of their point of origin long before the silk road, such as pomegrantates and apples.
没有人会进行这样的旅行，即使他们这样做了，也很少有货物能全程运输。当马可波罗的父亲去东方时，他更多的是一个探险家，如果你读这本书，你会意识到在异国他乡旅行这么远是多么危险，尽管他确实对其中一些经历做了润饰。
至于水果，我认为更像是树木本身辐射到它们种植在丝绸之路上的地方。大多数果树都来自亚洲。商人们可能在他们来往的两座城市都有房子，并且都在这两座城市里种了果园。因此，水果就像商人们一步一步地搬运和种植一样，慢慢地沿着这条路传播开来。
不过，这些果树中有许多早在丝绸之路出现之前就已经从原产地辐射出去了，比如石榴和苹果。
Airelhach
Before the conquest of Constantinople, trade to Europe through Silkroad was mainly done by Genoese and Venetian traders. After the conquest, Ottomans dispelled Genoese traders from their ports and banned them from trading goods as well, because of the help Genoese provided to Byzantium in the siege (they had sent their fleet to blockade the golden horn, if I'm not mistaken). To damage Geneose in Mediterranean even more, Ottomans gave Venetian traders -competitors of Genoese - privileges in trading. Any other foreign trader had to pay much more taxes contary to their Venetian counterparts. That said, trading goods from Venetians was almost much more cheaper than paying taxes to Ottomans. The first capitulation in Ottomans' history, later they gave such and more privileges to French in Suleiman's reign.
在君士坦丁堡被征服之前，通过丝绸之路与欧洲的贸易主要由热那亚和威尼斯商人完成。征服之后，奥斯曼人将热那亚商人驱逐出他们的港口，并禁止他们进行货物贸易，因为热那亚人在围城期间为拜占庭提供了帮助。
为了进一步破坏地中海的热那亚，奥斯曼帝国给了威尼斯商人——热那亚的竞争对手——贸易特权。其他任何外国贸易商都必须支付比威尼斯同行多得多的税。
也就是说，从威尼斯人那里交易商品比向奥斯曼人缴税便宜得多。后来在苏莱曼统治时期，他们给了法国更多的特权。
Nenenin Donu
Ottomans didnt just completely shut down the Silk Road rather they demanded enormous taxes that led to its decease, eventually triggering the age of European expansion
奥斯曼人并没有完全关闭丝绸之路，而是要求巨额税收，导致了丝绸之路的灭亡，最终引发了欧洲扩张时代。
Chris Whinery
Yeah, that makes more sense. It would make no sense for them to just shut it down entirely if they thought they could profit off of it instead. Why would they even do that? What's the motivation? It makes more sense that they just weren't that business savvy and as a result got too greedy with their taxation, introducing enough friction into the system that it finally became easier for the Europeans to seek their own routes where before it wasn't worth the cost and they just paid the markup.
是啊，这样说更有道理。如果他们认为可以从中获利，那么完全关闭它就没有意义了。他们为什么要这么做?动机是什么?
更说得通的是，他们没有商业头脑，结果在税收上变得太贪婪，给这套贸易体系制造了太多的障碍，使得欧洲人最终找寻自己的航线变得更可行。
SZ Typetto
@Chris Whinery , a lot of people get confused by the use of vocabulary regarding the Ottoman control of trade routes to the East. Core reason behind that is most speakers aren't proficient in English. So they substitute words they use from their own language, which in itself may not be entirely accurate. For clarity - the Ottomans maintained a monopoly on the trade routes, extorting heavy prices. Those who couldn't pay or wanted to compete on the same trade routes, where shut down through warfare, piracy or banning access. There are some idiots who will come here to defend the Ottomans with their convoluted beliefs, portraying it like a fantastical Empire like Gondor that progressed in Science, Culture, etc. But all the Ottomans did was piggyback on the developments of the Selucid and Byzantine. As the Ottomans no longer continued investing in those areas, or rather never invested there to begin with whatever remnants of scholars, thinkers, and craftsmen that existed, simply died or migrated.
很多人对奥斯曼帝国控制东方贸易路线的词汇感到困惑。这背后的核心原因是大多数说英语的人都不精通英语。所以他们用自己语言中的词来代替，这本身可能并不完全准确。
澄清一下，奥斯曼人在贸易路线上保持着垄断，敲诈勒索高昂的价格。那些付不起钱或想要在同一条贸易路线上竞争的人，因为战争、海盗或禁止进入而关闭。
有些白痴会带着他们错综复杂的信仰来这里捍卫奥斯曼帝国，把它描绘成一个像刚铎一样在科学、文化等方面不断进步的幻想帝国。但奥斯曼人所做的一切只是借用了塞琉西德和拜占庭的发展。
由于奥斯曼人不再继续在这些地区投资，或者更确切地说，从一开始就没有在那里投资，所以那些曾经存在的学者、思想家和工匠们，要么死了，要么移民了。
Depek The Great
An extremely so fascinating story of how the Silk Road was being built for mainly the trading of almost all the sectors to be exported and imported via China to some of the respective European countries and I am extremely so happy to see the construction workers to build that road of variety routes to save cost,good friends!!!:-D
一个非常引人入胜的故事。讲述了丝绸之路是如何建立的，以及各行各业的产品都是通过中国进出口到一些欧洲国家。
我非常高兴看到工人们建造各种道路以便节省成本的做法，好朋友!/笑
很赞哦！ ()
