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QA问答:印度和中国如此对立,金砖国家怎么能同时包括印度 和中国呢?

How can BRICS include both India and China, when India and China are so antagonistic with one another?
2023-12-03 互联网 513 收藏 举报
译文简介
网友:印度对中国的敌意主要是由印度媒体和社交媒体煽动的,得到了印度政府的认可,因为怪罪中国比承认自己的失败更为方便。
正文翻译

Yes, China and India have border disputes, and border conflicts broke out in the 1960s and 1970s. There have also been conflicts in the Galwan region in the past few years.

But the relationship between China and India is not as bad as Western media renders it, nor is it as terrible as some Indian media render it.
 

是的,中国和印度存在边界争端,上世纪六七十年代曾爆发过边界冲突。在过去几年里,加勒万地区也发生过冲突。

但是,中国和印度之间的关系并非西方媒体描绘得那么糟糕,也不像一些印度媒体所描述的那么可怕。
 


If we look at a world map, especially one with altitude. It can be seen that China and India are separated by the Himalayas. Although the two countries are neighboring countries, they are naturally separated.

Therefore, in the past thousands of years, the two countries developed independently without interfering with each other, and even little trade was carried out. The current China and India were only established after World War II. The contradiction between them originated from the division of territories by the British colonists, rather than the natural contradiction between the two nations. In the words of the Chinese, China and India "have no historical debt." After all, the Chinese view history in terms of 100 years as the smallest unit.


如果我们看一张世界地图,特别是一张带有海拔高度的地图,可以看到中国和印度被喜马拉雅山脉隔开。尽管两国是邻国,但它们自然地分隔开来。

因此,在过去的几千年里,这两个国家独立发展,互不干涉,甚至几乎没有进行过贸易。当前的中国和印度是在二战后才建立的。它们之间的矛盾源于英国殖民者对领土的划分,而不是两国之间的自然矛盾。用中国人的话说,中印之间“没有历史债务”。毕竟,中国人将历史看作以百年为最小单位。
 

If you ask a Chinese: Who do you think China’s enemy is?

The vast majority of Chinese people will answer: Japan. Maybe someone mentioned the United States, and maybe South Korea.

, some may even say Russia. But I have hardly ever heard the Chinese label India as their enemy. Even if I emphasize that "China and India had a war," they will still think: "India is not an enemy" and regard the Sino-Indian conflict as "a quarrel between neighbors."


如果你问一个中国人:你认为中国的敌人是谁?

绝大多数中国人会回答:日本。可能会有人提到美国,或者可能是韩国。甚至有人可能会提到俄罗斯。但我几乎从未听过中国人将印度称为他们的敌人。即使我强调“中印曾发生战争”,他们仍会认为:“印度不是敌人”,并将中印冲突视为“邻居之间的争吵”。
 

In the eyes of Chinese people, couples also quarrel, let alone two neighboring countries. As long as the scope of cooperation is far greater than the scope of differences, then both parties are partners.

Of course, the results of this survey in India may be completely different, mainly due to the influence of Western and Indian media. After all, the media is very good at seizing on a certain local hot spot and then telling the audience that this is all.

 

在中国人看来,夫妻之间也会争吵,更不用说两个邻国了。只要合作的范围远远大于分歧的范围,那么双方就是合作伙伴。

当然,这项调查在印度的结果可能会完全不同,主要是由于西方和印度媒体的影响。毕竟,媒体非常擅长抓住某个地方的热点,然后告诉观众这就是全部。
 

The point I'm trying to make, though, is this. The two sides are not really hostile. The similarities between China and India outweigh the differences. They are all developing countries with huge populations and face problems such as poverty alleviation, public education and environmental pollution. Both countries are developing rapidly and are gradually coming into conflict with developed countries. The two sides have consistent interests on many issues, especially international trade, carbon emissions, human rights and other issues, and they jointly resist the squeeze of developed countries. On the issues of the Russia-Ukraine war and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, China and India basically have the same attitude.

我想表达的观点是,双方并非真正敌对。中印之间的相似之处远远超过了差异。它们都是人口众多的发展中国家,面临着扶贫、公共教育和环境污染等问题。两国都在快速发展,并逐渐与发达国家发生冲突。双方在许多问题上有一致的利益,特别是国际贸易、碳排放、人权等问题,它们共同抵制发达国家的挤压。在俄乌战争和巴以冲突等问题上,中印基本上持有相同的态度。
 

China and India do not have much competition in business. China is developing high-end manufacturing and competing with developed countries. India is developing mid- to low-end manufacturing industries and can take over the production capacity transferred from China. India is a major agricultural exporter, while China is a major agricultural importer. There is a lot of room for cooperation between the two parties.

中印在商业上并没有太多竞争。中国发展高端制造业,与发达国家竞争。印度发展中低端制造业,可以接管从中国转移过来的产能。印度是主要的农产品出口国,而中国是主要的农产品进口国。双方之间有很大的合作空间。
 

When the Sino-Indian border conflict occurred, there were already serious deaths of soldiers. No shots were fired. This shows that the agreement between the two sides outweighs the differences. The border dispute is not the mainstay of Sino-Indian relations. This point has a clear consensus among the elites of both sides. So the soldiers were severely restricted. The foundation of the relationship between the two countries will not change because of the advocacy of the Western media. There will be no war as the West expects.

当中印边界冲突发生时,已经有士兵严重伤亡,但没有开火。这表明双方的协议超过了分歧。边界争端不是中印关系的主旋律。这一点在双方精英中有明确的共识。因此,士兵们受到了严格的限制。两国之间关系的基础不会因西方媒体的宣传而改变。不会有西方期望的那样发生战争。
 

After all, neither Chinese leaders nor Indian leaders are fools.

毕竟,中国领导人和印度领导人都不是傻瓜。

As a symbol of emerging economies, it is not surprising that the BRICS countries also include China and India.

作为新兴经济体的象征,金砖国家包括中国和印度也并不奇怪。

评论翻译
Sam Payne

I think another reason why the border conflict does not get as much attention in China is because those disputed territories are very far away from major Chinese population centers. Whereas they are within a 3 hour flight to New Delhi, so India is just going to make a bigger deal about it.

Other problems is that Indias major rivers such as the Ganges and Bramaputra which is like an agricultural life blood for hundreds of millions of Indians and has strong historical and spiritual connotations are sourced from glaciers in Chinese Tibet. They are vulnerable to damming when China decides to develop hydroelectric infrastructure in their western regions.

Many Hindu nationalists feel that Tibet should be in India’s sphere of influence because of its historical significance to Buddhism, which is an Indian “Dharmic” religion.

China’s BRI and economic sphere of influence a long with their alliance with Pakistan and economic partnerships with Nepal and Sri Lanka makes India feel as if they are being “squeezed” or contained. All these countries they feel are a part of the “Indosphere” according to Indian nationalists.

Not to mention that many Indians may perhaps feel jealous that their fellow populous giant have been able to leapfrog them in development when they started out at the same spot several decades ago, and one thing I know about Indians is that they have a tendency to be quite jealous and petty and are quite boastful even when its unearned.

I really feel that it is Indian nationalism that makes this relationship seem worse than they actually are but then the Chinese are too distant and insensitive to acknowledge their concerns.

我认为中国对边境冲突关注较少的另一个原因是有争议的领土离中国主要人口中心很远。而对印度来说,这些地区距离新德里只有3小时的飞行时间,因此印度会对此大惊小怪。

另一个问题是印度的主要河流,如恒河和雅鲁藏布江,它们对数以亿计的印度人来说是农业生命之源,并具有深厚的历史和精神内涵,这些河流的源头位于中国的西藏。当中国决定在其西部地区开发水电基础设施时,这些河流容易受到堰塞的威胁。

许多印度教民族主义者认为,西藏应该在印度的影响范围内,因为它对佛教具有历史意义,而佛教是一种印度“印度教教义”宗教。

中国的一带一路倡议和经济影响范围,以及他们与巴基斯坦的联盟以及与尼泊尔和斯里兰卡的经济合作,使印度感觉自己被“挤压”或受到限制。在印度民族主义者看来,所有这些国家都是“印度范围”的一部分。

更不用说许多印度人可能会感到嫉妒,因为他们的庞大邻国在几十年前与他们处于同一起点时,已经在发展上超越了他们。我知道印度人有一种倾向,即在没有实际成就的情况下,他们可能会感到相当嫉妒和琐碎,并且即使他们没有实际成就,他们也会相当自负。

我真的觉得是印度民族主义让这种关系看起来比实际情况更糟糕,但与此同时,中国人对他们的关切太过疏远和麻木。

Paul Denlinger

Indian hostility to China is mainly stirred up by the Indian media and social media with the approval of the Indian government because it is more convenient to blame China than to admit their own failures.

印度对中国的敌意主要是由印度媒体和社交媒体煽动的,得到了印度政府的认可,因为怪罪中国比承认自己的失败更为方便。

SAMARTH SAMANT

China dosnt care much about india and disputes with it . It's more interested in Taiwan.

The best solution I belive is that india should accept solution offered by zhou enlai in his1960s visit to india .

Now it's obvious there are unrealistic chances or nil chances of india taking aksai chin

Zhou had offered that india accept aksai chin as part of china and in exchange china would accept arunachal pradesh(south Tibet as per them) as part of india .

Same thing was done in context of Sikkim . China recognized Sikkim as indian territory in exchange of india recognizing Tibet.

中国对印度并不太关心,更关注的是与印度的争端。最好的解决方案,我认为,是印度应该接受周恩来在他20世纪60年代访问印度时提出的解决方案。

现在很明显,印度取得阿克赛钦的机会是不切实际的,几乎为零。

周恩来曾提出印度接受阿克赛钦作为中国的一部分,作为交换,中国将接受阿鲁纳恰尔邦(他们称之为南藏)作为印度的一部分。

在锡金的背景下,同样的事情也发生过。中国承认锡金是印度领土,作为交换,印度承认西藏。

Ruben Wu

Indian’s wired mind: “China didn’t think Our indian as their arch enemy, It is an insult to India”

印度人的想法:“中国并没有将我们印度视为他们的死敌,这是对印度的侮辱。”

Deekshith M S

Here in india it's completely opposite…. China is seen as biggest threat…india is being considered as developed country and think that China wants to attack us to get popular…. Almost everyday there will be 30 mins news program in every 500+ news channels to explain how China is our enemy and how we should keep them away.

在印度,情况截然相反…… 中国被视为最大的威胁…… 印度被认为是一个发达国家,人们认为中国想要攻击我们以取得声望…… 几乎每天都会有30分钟的新闻节目在超过500个新闻频道中,解释中国是我们的敌人,以及我们应该如何保持距离。

Milo Cao

The propaganda that China wants to attack India would be so laughable to any sensible Chinese. Such illusion and narratives created by India media are poisonous.

中国想要攻击印度的宣传对于任何理智的中国人来说都是可笑的。印度媒体创造的这种错觉和叙述是有毒的。

Lucifer /XI

India is considered as a developed country by delusional people, India is a developing country not a developed one.

把印度看作是发达国家的人是妄想,印度是一个发展中国家,而不是发达国家。

Mike

Lol typical Western scheme cuz if India-Chia-Russia-Iran team up we all know what’s gonna happen. Maybe with Mexico Brazil on the other hemisphere too

这真是典型的西方套路,因为如果印度、中国、俄罗斯和伊朗携手合作,我们都知道会发生什么。或许在另一半球,墨西哥和巴西也会加入。

Jeanpeterson Pierce

NO NO NO the Chinese are NOT antagonistic toward India - after all many of their Saints and their greatest religion Buddhism is from India and everyday Millions pray in Sanskrit. but some inferiority complexed fractious pandemiacs like to imagine greatness lies in excoriating Neighbours

不不不,中国并不对印度持敌对态度——毕竟,许多他们的圣人和他们最伟大的宗教佛教都起源于印度,每天都有数百万人用梵文祈祷。但一些自卑而爱找茬的人喜欢幻想伟大之处在于抨击邻居。

Asit Mohanty

“The border dispute is not the mainstay of Sino-Indian relations.”

You are partially right. From China’s perspective it is not a big deal. After all India has only a half or less of their military power. Just by submarines itself, China has 5x the numbers. Same with gdp - 5x. Almost the same as India vs Pakistan. Just like India does not consider Pakistan a threat, China doesn’t consider India a threat.
But what about the opposite side? Does Pakistan consider India a threat? You bet it does. So does India.

When your powerful neighbour unilaterally publishes a map that shows one of your states as their own, it is not a simple dispute anymore. It is a warning that they are coming. And if your only chance is to get help from the West even though you know the West has their own agenda, it is really easy to make that decision as opposed to losing a part of your country to China.

“边界争端并非中印关系的主旋律。”

你有一部分是正确的。但是从中国的角度来看,这并不是什么大不了的事。毕竟,印度的军事力量只有他们的一半或更少。仅以潜艇而言,中国的数量就是印度的5倍。与GDP一样——5倍。几乎与印度对巴基斯坦的情况相同。就像印度不把巴基斯坦视为威胁一样,中国也不把印度视为威胁。
但反过来呢?巴基斯坦是否认为印度是威胁?当然是的。印度也是如此。

当你强大的邻国单方面发布一张将你的一个州显示为他们自己的地图时,这不再是一个简单的争端。这是一个警告,他们要来了。而如果你唯一的机会是寻求西方的帮助,尽管你知道西方有他们自己的议程,与失去国土一部分相比,做出这个决定就变得非常容易。

Mel Victor

It is the Colonial Brits that's the serpent in its farewell poison gift. What better way to let these Non-Whites squabble and fight after they themselves exit the scene. The Brits are infamous that way, look at Hong Kong. However, just because the Brits had to leave with its tail between the legs after losing power in the aftermath of WW2, it doesn't mean that all those territories they stole should automatically belong to India.

是殖民时期的英国人,就像是蛇蝎离场一样,留下了令人不安的问题。让这些非白人在他们离去后纷争不休,似乎是他们别有用心的安排。英国人以这样的方式臭名昭著,看看香港的例子就清楚了。然而,仅仅因为英国人在二战后失去权力、含羞而退,并不意味着他们偷取的所有领土就应该自动归属于印度。
原文地址:https://www.quora.com/search?q=How%20can%20BRICS%20include%20both%20India%20and%20China%2C%20when%20India%20and%20China%20are%20so%20antagonistic%20with%20one%20another%3F

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