与世界其他高铁项目相比，印尼雅万高铁的成本如何？

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Aya Shawn
According to our Singapore media reports, the cost of the Jakarta-Bandung high-speed rail is approximately US$7.3 billion. We tentatively believe that this number is real.
So this figure exceeds the budget given by China when bidding for the project eight years ago by US$1.2 billion. The project completion time was delayed by 4 years than originally planned.
This doesn't seem like a good number.
But compared to current plans in other countries around the world to build high-speed rail, these are two very good figures.

根据我们新加坡的媒体报道，雅加达-万隆高铁的成本约为73亿美元。我们初步认为这个数字是真实的。 因此，这个数字超出了中国在8年前竞标该项目时给定的预算12亿美元。该项目的完成时间比最初计划的延迟了4年。 这似乎不是一个好的数字。 但与世界各地其他国家当前计划建设高铁相比，这两个数字是非常不错的。

1. Cost per kilometer
Even calculated based on all costs after overruns (including land costs), the cost per kilometer of Indonesia's high-speed rail is only US$58 million. The high-speed rail in the United Kingdom is US$300 million per kilometer, and the high-speed rail in California is US$200 million per kilometer.
India's high-speed rail was originally planned to cost US$35 million per kilometer. However, it has not actually been completed yet. Only ten kilometers have been built. The cost has been doubled and the final cost cannot be estimated. Due to serious delays in construction, some experts predict that there is a high probability that the cost per kilometer will exceed US$80 million when completed.

1、每公里成本
即使根据所有超支后的所有成本计算（包括土地成本在内），印度尼西亚高铁每公里仅为5800万美元。英国高铁每公里为3亿美元，加利福尼亚高铁每公里为2亿美元。 印度高铁最初计划每公里成本为3500万美元。然而，实际上尚未完工，只建造了十公里。成本已翻倍，最终成本无法估算。由于建设严重拖延，一些专家预测完成时每公里成本很有可能超过8000万美元。

2. Time spent
The Indian high-speed railway started construction one year earlier than the Indonesian high-speed railway and is scheduled to open in 2023. According to media reports some time ago, only 10 kilometers have been built so far.
The completion date has been changed to 2028, but many experts believe that the actual completion time may be after 2032.
The first phase of the British high-speed railway is planned to build 160 kilometers. Construction will start in 2020 and is scheduled to be completed in 2029. It has now been changed to 2033. The real completion date cannot be determined.

2. 花费的时间
印度高铁比印尼高铁提前一年开始建设，计划于2023年开通。据先前的媒体报道，目前仅建成了10公里。 完成日期已更改为2028年，但许多专家认为实际完成时间可能在2032年之后。 英国高铁的第一阶段计划建设160公里。建设于2020年开始，计划于2029年完成。现在已更改为2033年。真正的完成日期无法确定。

Therefore, although the Indonesian high-speed railway experienced a 16% cost overrun and a 4-year construction delay.
But this is mainly due to the virus problem over the past 3 years.
Judging from similar large-scale projects around the world, Indonesians have reached the top level in terms of project time and budget control.（Except for local projects in China）
I believe that for many years to come, no country will be able to surpass Indonesia's level.
This is due to the efficient work of the Indonesian government, the unity and support of the Indonesian people, and the technology and efficiency of the Chinese. Their achievements deserve congratulations.

因此，印尼高铁虽然出现了16%的成本超支和4年的建设延误。
但这主要是由于过去3年的大流行问题造成的。
从全球同类大型项目来看，这个项目在项目时间和预算控制方面都达到了顶尖水平。
我相信，未来很多年，没有任何国家能够超越印度尼西亚的水平。（中国本土项目除外）
这得益于印尼政府的高效工作，得益于印尼人民的团结支持，得益于中国人的技术和效率。他们的成就值得祝贺。

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Teoh Ck
· Oct 13
Apart from the pandemic, land acquisitions was a major problem. That lies in the hands of the Indonesian government, not the Chinese. The Chinese are just the contractor, ie. their main task/responsibilities is building the infrastructures. Other aspects which contributed to the delays are not really their fault.

除了大流行之外，征地也是一个大问题。这取决于印度尼西亚政府，而不是中国人。中国人只是承包商，即他们的主要任务/职责是建设基础设施。造成延误的其他原因并不是他们的错。

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Haru Krentz
· Nov 18
True that.

确实如此

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Murali Krishna
· Oct 13
It's so difficult to acquire land, appease ultra pro environment parties, local leaders every 50 Km .Solving these issues itself doubles or triples the project costs .
Congratulations to Indonesian leadership for solving these issues.

每50公里就需要征集一次土地、安抚超环保人士。地方负责人是如此困难，解决这些问题本身就会使项目成本增加一倍或三倍。
祝贺印度尼西亚领导人解决了这些问题。

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Norman Tan
· Oct 13
It's no longer an “if”. They have finished building the Jakarta to Bandung line.

这不再是一个“如果”。他们已经完成了雅加达至万隆线的建设。

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Murali Krishna
· Oct 13
Noted .Edited the post.Thanks.

已注意到。编辑了帖子。谢谢。

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Paul Poh
· Oct 20
Exactly, most infrastructure projects are delayed because of the lengthy process of land acquisition.

确切地说，大多数基础设施项目都因为征地过程漫长而被推迟。

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Siewhoong Chan
· Nov 16
I think this issue is particularly bad in India where so many power centres abound. Control from the centre is virtually impossible. I guess the autocracy and party control enabled China to built cheap n fait.

我认为这个问题在印度尤其严重，那里有很多权力中心。从中央控制几乎是不可能的。我猜想，一党专政使中国能够建造廉价而真实的建筑。

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Murali Krishna
· Nov 16
Spot on.

你发现了关键

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Kur Darwin
· Nov 17
We also have this problem here in Indonesia. Every leader whose land got acquired by HSR asked for some fee. I think its global problem.

我们在印度尼西亚也有这个问题。每一个被高铁征用土地的地主都会索要一些费用。我认为这是全球性问题。

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Felix Su
· Oct 14
The high speed rail in the US has increased to $126 Billion. And it is likely that it will increase in price. It’s not slated to be done for at least 10 more years.
So no one knows what the final cost will be but it will be huge.
Boston Big Dig. I live in Boston. Started out as $5 Billion for a few miles of tunnels and a bridge.
20 years later it ended up as $20 Billion.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the HSR in CA ends up at $200 Billion. If they ever finish it.

美国高铁投资已增至1260亿美元。而且价格很可能会上涨。预计至少还要10年才能完成。
所以没有人知道最终的成本是多少，但肯定是巨大的。
波士顿正在大挖掘。我住在波士顿。最初计划花费 50亿美元修建几英里的隧道和一座桥梁。
20 年后，它最终达到200亿美元。
如果加州的高铁最终达到2000亿美元，我不会感到惊讶。如果他们能完成的话。

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Murali Krishna
· Oct 20
Unlike China which can simply crush any opposition to land acquisition and send the protesters to re-education camps or make them disappear ,.rest of the world.has to deal with every opposition and resolve disputes amicably .

与中国可以简单地搞定任何反对征地的(译注：造谣XX营，消失等)，世界其他国家必须友好地对待每一个反对派并解决争端。

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Tsing Hsiung Ye
· Oct 29
You made me laugh. Stereotypes are really terrible. Actually when America was in high-speed developing phase, they also do the same thing.

你让我笑了。刻板印象真的很可怕。其实美国在高速发展的时候，他们也做了同样的事情。

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James Lee
· Nov 3
In the re education camps they make them drink cow's piss and eat cow dung like in India

在xx营里，他们让他们像印度人一样喝牛尿、吃牛粪

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Quan Liu
· Nov 22
You have no idea how much people want rail or other facilities planned to run through their homes.
Because this will allow these ordinary people to make a lot of money, and the government will give them quite generous compensation. These people are called the second generation of demolitions in China. Many of them received compensation and did not even need to work again in their lives.

你不知道有多少人希望铁路或其他设施计划穿过他们的家。
因为这会让这些老百姓赚到很多钱，而且政府会给他们相当丰厚的补偿。这些人被称为中国的“拆二代”。他们中的许多人得到了补偿，甚至一生都不需要再工作。

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Dave Ch
· Oct 13
And NYC spent $4.5 billion on 3 legacy subway stations on the 2nd Ave subway line. Marginal expansion of 100 year system at orders of magnitude greater cost compared to a complete modern HSR line.

纽约市斥资45亿美元在第二大道地铁线上修建了3个旧地铁站。与完整的现代高铁线路相比，100年前的系统的边际扩展成本要高出几个数量级。

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Moa Aier
· Oct 13
Even if the estimated project cost is very low, say 35 or 40 million per km, but if the completion date keeps pushing up by 5 years, then another 5 years then indefinitely, what's the use? Even the final cost becomes infinite.

即使工程造价很低，比如每公里3500、4000万，但如果竣工日期一直推到5年，再推5年，无限期，有什么用呢？甚至最终的成本也变得无限。

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Kur Darwin
· Nov 17
That is actually very good argument.

这实际上是一个非常好的论点。

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Black Sabbath
· Oct 13
Surely the land cost is very much a big factor wouldn’t it…as compared to the direct train asset cost?

当然，与直达列车资产成本相比，土地成本是一个很大的因素，不是吗？

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Richard Teo
· Oct 13
In a lot of these costs provided, there are a lot of missing information, land cost being one of them.
And of course valuation of land in UK would be very much different from that of Indonesia. Nonetheless, as per answered, indeed, a 16% overrun is very respectable and without the pandemic, perhaps time to complete could have been either on-time or some months of delay rather than the 4 years.

在提供的许多成本中，有很多缺失的信息，土地成本就是其中之一。
当然，英国的土地估价与印度尼西亚的土地估价有很大不同。尽管如此，根据回答，确实，16%的超支是非常好的表现的，如果没有大流行，甚至可能会按时完成，最多可能会延迟几个月，而不是4年。

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Mark Chen
· Oct 13
I think the extension of four years is incorrect. Do you agree to correct it?

我认为延长四年是不正确的。你同意改正吗？

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Richard Teo
· Nov 5
The 4 years was reported by the author - Aya Shawn. Please direct the proposed correction to him.
Again without access to the contract document, whether the delay is actually 4 years or not, is moot. The 4 years might have been deduced from public information (news report that in itself might content error).

这 4年是由作者 - Aya Shawn说的。请将建议的更正转给他。
同样，在无法获得合同文件的情况下，无论实际延迟是否为4年，都是没有意义的。这4年可能是从公开信息中推断出来的（新闻报道本身可能内容错误）。

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Allen
· Oct 13
I think you are just nitpicking.
In Southeast Asia, are any large public projects completed as planned?
We are always bound by various reasons.
An airport in Thailand can be delayed for ten years.
It is a miracle that the high-speed rail was completed after a delay of 4 years (and there was a pandemic in the middle). I support the respondent's view.

我觉得你们就是在吹毛求疵。
在东南亚，大型公共项目有按计划完成的吗？
我们总是被各种原因羁绊。
在泰国一座机场都能延误十年。
延误4年就建成高铁已经是奇迹（中间还有大流行），我支持答主的看法。

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Anthony Chong
· Oct 13
The bigger factors are the determination of the local government (Indonesia), local labour costs (UK - labour unxs), and local support and cooperation (India - diverse religious and citizens response/cooperation to resettlement). The numerical construction/land/material cost are just theoretical costs, the psychological and human barriers are what eventually push up the real costs to incalculable heights in the end, often into total failures.

更大的因素是当地政府的决心（印度尼西亚）、当地劳动力成本（英国 - 工会）以及当地的支持与合作（印度 - 不同宗教和公民对移民安置的反应/合作）。数字化的建筑/土地/材料成本只是理论成本，心理和人为障碍最终将实际成本推高到难以估量的高度，最终常常导致彻底失败。

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Jeanpeterson Pierce
· Oct 17
Most importantly the rail revenues and property appreciation taxes will be used to pay the low-interest construction loan over time and over extended time without causing default or burdening the rest of the national budget.

最重要的是，铁路收入和财产增值税将用于长期支付低息建设贷款，而不会造成违约或给国家预算的其他部分带来负担。

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Tsing Hsiung Ye
· Oct 29
Don’t forget Vietnam’s railway project, Vietnam and Japan signed cooperation memorandum as early as in 2006! But Vietnam’s congress vetoed it in 2010, and the project suspended till now. Both India and Veitnam’s project were signed by Japanese..I can imagine how desperate they are. So does the KL-S high speed railway, It was signed during Najib’s time but cancelled by Mahadir, then there are some news saying to restart the project.
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Guotai Huang
· Nov 6
Great nation china. They did it.

伟大的国家中国。他们真的做到了。

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Mark Chen
· Oct 13
I think the extension of four years is incorrect. Do you agree to correct it? Aya

我认为延长四年是不正确的。你同意改正吗？ 答主

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Paul Poh
· Oct 20
Delay in construction is due to land clearance, compensation to the house owners not forgetting the 2 years pandemic.

施工延误的原因是土地清理、对业主的补偿，还有两年的大流行。

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Kenneth Kay
· Oct 31
Compared to Japanese contract to build HSR for India this is a done deal albeit a significant cost overrun. Compared to the Saudi / US /India proposed BRI-like project … there’s nothing to compare with! That proposal is DOA with Israel bombing the hell out of Gaza …

与日本为印度建设高铁的合同相比，尽管成本严重超支，但这笔交易已经完成。与沙特/美国/印度提出的类似“一带一路”的项目相比……没有什么可以比较的！该提议是以色列轰炸加沙的DOA……

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Haru Krentz
· Nov 18
Beggar belief that the UK, first country to introduce train in the world is yet to have HSR…

乞丐认为英国是世界上第一个引入火车的国家，但迄今还没有高铁……

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Siska
· Nov 18
Based on the good performance of the first phase of the project, I suggest that the Indonesian government should hand over all subsequent projects to the Chinese.
Stop the business games and just give them the same price.
The Japanese have made no achievements in this kind of project. They will only come to muddy the waters and delay the start of the project.

介于一期工程的良好表现，我建议印尼政府应该把后续工程全部交给中国人。
停止商业博弈，就按同样的价格给他们就好了。
日本人在这种项目上毫无建树，他们只会来把水搅浑，然后把项目开工时间拖延下去。

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Beefang
· Nov 18
If there hadn't been a pandemic, I have no doubt the Chinese would have finished on time.
It only took them 2 years and 7 months to build a 2-kilometer cross-sea bridge in the Maldives.
When they released the news, I originally thought it would take ten years.
Chinese people are all supermen.

如果没有大流行，我毫不怀疑中国人能按时完工。
他们在我们马尔代夫只花了2年零7个月就建成了一座2公里的跨海大桥。
在他们发布新闻时，我原本以为那会花十年。
中国人都是超人。

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Kunal
· Nov 18
Please don't spread fake news
India's high-speed rail has long been opened, and Tejas Express has been running in Mumbai for several years.
Indonesia is a latecomer

请不要传播虚假的新闻
印度的高铁早已开通，Tejas Express在孟买已经运行好几年了。
印尼是迟到者

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Siska
· Nov 18
Only Indians would call a train with a speed of 150 kilometers per hour a high-speed train. LMAO
The speed of the bullet train that we Indonesians drive is 350 kilometers per hour. I hope it can make you understand what high-speed rail is.

只有印度人才会把时速150的列车叫做高铁。你要笑死我。
我们印尼人飞驰的子弹头列车时速是350公里，希望能让你明白什么是高铁。

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Paul Poh
· Nov 18
no offense
This project in India really cannot be considered a high-speed rail

无意冒犯
印度这个项目真的不能算高铁

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Kunal
· Nov 18
If you mention higher speeds, then the Mumbai-Ahmedabad high-speed rail under construction in India fits your bill.
Due to delays by the Japanese, it is expected to open to traffic in 2028.
To be honest, letting Japan take on this project was a mistake. Maybe the Germans will do better.

如果提到更高的速度，那么印度正在建设的孟买-艾哈迈达巴德高铁符合你的要求。
由于日本人的拖延，预计在2028年通车。
说实话，让日本承接这个项目是一个错误。也许德国人会做得更好。

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Paul Poh
· Nov 19
No intention to offend again
1. After the completion of this high-speed railway in India, the designed maximum speed is still only 320KM/H. The gap with Indonesia is obvious. The Japanese technology has lagged behind.
2. The Japanese gave India an almost interest-free loan with a 50-year repayment period. If Japan had not done it for political purposes (confronting China), no country in the world would have issued such a stupid loan. The Germans are not that stupid.
3. I don’t believe that this high-speed railway will be opened to traffic in 2028. I believe more in the respondent’s prediction of 2032. We can wait and see.

无意再次冒犯
1、印度这条高铁建成后，设计最高速度依然只有320KM/H，和印尼的差距很明显，日本人的技术已经落后了。
2、日本人给了印度几乎无息贷款，50年的偿还期。如果日本不是为了政治目的（对抗中国），世界上没有哪个国家会发放如此愚蠢的贷款，德国人没那么傻。
3、我不相信这条高铁能在2028年通车，更相信答主的预测-2032年，我们可以拭目以待。